Saturday, April 4, 2009

For Barry and the commenters

Before I begin, I want to say that I respect Barry’s perspective and thoughts on AFA. I learned something from both of the sides while debating this matter. I believe that it makes the whole community stronger and wiser. By the way, I just want to pick out one piece on the “attitude” and stretch it out.

Barry keeps saying, “wrong approach” and “wrong attitude” toward
Audism Free America in Deafvideo TV.
Oh, I got to say just a few simple sentences for an example (for this matter): “AGBell has taken the completely wrong approach toward ASL with wrong attitude to the whole deaf community, like when they’re complaining and writing a letter to the Pepsi company. How does the deaf community feel about that? See not only that but other happenings in the years by AGBell. There has been plenty of wrong approaches and attitudes from AGBell for years!”

Here is the poem I found for you! It’s not 100% written by me because I was changing it around to make sense for Deafread, Deafvideo TV, and the deaf community (just so it would fit into this situation)!
Enjoy the ride to the “attitude” world! (Ha-ha, you can laugh out loud)


A- Always making it happen
T- Taking pride in ASL and Audism Free America
T- Taking a stand to get it recognized for the better
I- Isolating the negative views without acknowledging them
T- Treating tasks as opportunities for all of the deaf children’s future
U- Utilizing the talents and knowledge every day
D- Doing our best to accomplish our tasks
E- Expecting & encouraging Positive improvements daily
S- Signing (speaking) greatly of others and what they’re trying to make the future of the deaf better every day


Barb DiGi said...

Great blog! Loved your revised poem and your selection of the pic!!

Candy said...

Wow, I'm so beyond shocked. Your picture above was all I could look at. So shocked that Deafread allowed that in the main site. Anyway, let me try to refrain from looking at the picture and focus on your post.... Beautiful art, eh? ;)

See sexISM at play? Everyone's view of ISM is so varied. Apparently partially exposed breasts are not allowed but a statute expliciting a penis and balls is. Sexism.

[sorry..I couldn't resist commenting about that picture. :) ]

Audism is no different, nor is any isms.

Anyway..I decided to stop and read your post..amazing I was able to take my eyes off your picture.

About what you said, attitude. I can only respond to an example: Pepsi letter. Allow me to try to present a view. AGB's sole mission is to advocate listening and speaking, right? Ok, Pepsi commercial seems to show the world that deaf people sign. We know that isn't true, not all deaf people sign, right? That is what AGB was referring to. AGB wanted to world to know that not only does deaf people sign, they they also don't sign. It may seems like an attitude but, if you try to reverse the situation, you'll see that deaf people would complain if a commercial showed deaf people to be oral. Imagine that. I think it is time for us all to respect the differences and accept that being deaf can mean many things.

It would be nice if AFA focuses on lessening the oppression, rather than using parental's choice as a form of oppression and blame it on some entity for that influencing that very oppression.

Welch's ASL Juice! said...

Hey there! Good blog! I like the way you put up all words under each letter "attitude". Ha! Thanks!

drmzz said...

You silly, Barry doesn't have a perspective. He's a cartoon! LOL.

Candy, seriously, you're way out there in la la land.

Anonymous said...

Hiya Deb,
Thank you very much to sharing us about your perspective. You got that point and well said! =)
- Tar

Karen Mayes said...

I am with Candy... the activist movements sometimes need to become more flexible, needing to realize that nothing is in black and white, but in gray area. That is why I steer away from AFA. Same goes for Deafhood, which more or less practices activism in a more radical ways (for an example, Ella's videocomments being published on DeafRead, as part of "influencing" deaf people into thinking differently. This I don't agree with... it strikes me as a lack of appreciation to the diversity of deaf people. Just my perspective only.)

Nice pix, by the way (tongue in my cheek.)

Barb DiGi said...

Yeah, what a picture Candy!

It is not about how AGB portray themselves as promoting speech and listening, it is about how they view sign language. They made statements that associate sign language to negativity (those who sign are socially isolated from society, oh please!).

Christine said...

Hi Deb,

Good post and well said.

Regarding about people like Karen Mayes, Candy and other followers of Barry, all they like to do is to pull down people that forms organizations.
It's irony that Karen, Candy, Barry, etc are unable to form an organization like NAD, DBC, AFA, etc and continue to practice crab theory philosophy.

It's really sad!


Candy said...

Barb, I agree, not all of us see that deaf people are isolated from society, but there are deaf people that are isolated because they don't feel comfortable out there.

It's so easy to look at ourselves and say that isn't so. I totally think that deaf people can be very independent out there in this world. However not every deaf people feel this way. It could be due to a lot of reasons. I think that many of the things we see/hear is pure ignorance and probably an attitude of superiority. But, why let it bother us? We know what we're capable of. How about organization out there like DBC and AFA do their thing, focus on marketing and just get the word out instead of going the rallying/protesting route. I think hearing parents will be more receptive if organizations are less radical. Please take heed of Miss Kat's Mom's words. She is one of several hearing parents out there that sees the benefit of ASL, yet chooses C.I. because she sees the benefits of that too.

Barb, why is it that every time we have groups forming that we see some C.I. sob story? Why can't DBC focus on baby signing without putting down C.I.? Why can't AFA promote oppression awareness without attacking C.I.?

Come on people, think!!! You guys want your organization to attract hearing parents rather than scare them away.

That's the key here isn't it? Get the message out to the hearing parents.

Anonymous said...

Great post.... I'm sensing Barryism here. LOL.

I am fascinated by the fact that there are no shortage of obsessive characters out there, thinking that AG Bell is responsible for all of our problems.

And by the way, I have my own version of ATTITUDE.

A- Always
T- Talk
T- To
I- Idiots
T- That
U- Utilizes
D- Discrimination,
E- Ethnocentrism,
S- Stupidity

Karen Mayes said...

Christine, apparently you don't know me well.

I am BUSY with my family and my crafts and gardening. My husband has been working full time as a programmer in a hearing company for the last three years, right after we moved to Indiana. I have NO desire to set up ANY organization... I am just offering my opinions, nothing more. I have a good social life, thank you.

Like Candy mentioned, there are many of us who are independent, content with smaller circle of friends, etc... and there is no crime in it. Some are social butterflies and while others are content to have fewer friends.

Now, have a good day...

Christine said...

Karen Mayes,

Keep your opinions to yourself and mind your business with your family and your social life with Deaf Village.

Candy said...


I would LOVE to see DBC and AFA succeed in the mission that they originally have announced with. I would LOVE to see more awareness about the benefits of ASL. I would LOVE to see AFA increase the awareness of oppression that the deaf have experience. However, looking for blame and going after other organization is distracting AFA and DBC's mission.

I am just putting in my two cents here. You have NO idea who I am and my history with the deaf. For that, I will forgive your ignorance.

These are my views and if you dodn't agree with it, just say so without being so vindictive.

Bottom line here is the parents are usually the ones that have the final say. Are you a parent? When you make decisions about your child, how do you go about doing it? Do you take people's word or do you check out resources out there? Keep in mind technology has gotten better over the years which enables parent to have more to choose from. Who is to say they have to stick to one choice? We can't tell parents what to do but, hey, already the parents are leery of the tactics shown by the two organization. Key here is PARENTS. Don't scare them away. This is what these two organization are doing. I have seen comments elsewhere that states that hearing parents thinks people that run AFA and DBC are dangerous people. I know that is not true, but that is how they are viewing you guys. Who are you guys trying to convince here? Parents, right?


Anonymous said...

I hope vloggers and commenters will ignore people like Barry, Candy, Karen and few others who insulted about our community and leaders...look what Barry said in his comment above. Barry and Karen also called AFA "Jihad". They should have been banned but instead Ridor got banned for using vulgar words. Interesting policies we have here. I have notice that vloggers and commenters are starting to ignore people like above. That is a good sign. They finally got it. We need to work on ignoring them completely and focus on vloggers, bloggers and commenters who present healthy and productive information and feedback about our community and issues. Let us focus on Barb Di Gi, Ella Lentz, Judy Gough, John Egbert, Nealaugh, Aidan Mack, Carl Schroeder, Mike Schmidt,and many more. I have noticed that we are becoming more united and stronger people.

drmzz said...

Christine, I agree with you. What people say online can rub people the wrong way considering this is a very small net community. I believe feedback or ideas are best expressed when you're involved outside this community. If such ideas are not utilized then good luck to the org to carry thru with their goals. Eventually they will find out if they are effective or not. The Pepsi commercial (as rehashed by Barb) was unique cuz it involved Deaf Pepsi employees into the creative process. What AGB did (and even had the gall to ask for money) was uncalled for. Period. It's an open market.

Barry, living among the bush and rocks, that's understandable where you're coming from with such logic, LOL. I don't think you really see the good in Deaf people unless it's only your way. Such arrogance is not effective. Deb Ann's poem is more empathic, encouraging, and inspiring. She sees the good in people and I like that spirit. It takes action to find out and learn from such actual concrete experiences. Many people are willing to try and find out than just talk talk talk.

Karen Mayes said...

In case you have failed to notice, I rarely visit Deaf Village, so that tells me you don't know anything about me. I don't know any about you, but I don't resort to belitting you, just like Penny and drmzz did to people who happen to have different viewpoints (IT IS OKAY TO HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS.)

As I have said MANY times, it is all about perspectives and I see many of us are sensitive about it. We have our own versions of truth.

To be honest, I don't see people discussing AFA, Deafhood, etc. here in Indiana... so I believe there is more discussion on DeafRead and DVTV than anywhere else. Hence a different kind of reality.

ASL Risen said...

Oh lawdy, NOTHING new about Barry! Does that means Barry call us STUPID??? Ban Barry for good! Wondering the DR moderators still do accept Barry the worst ATTITUDES??

Candy said...

Penny, how have I insulted mine and your community? Are you saying I can't have an opinion?

FYI, Karen is someone I know from blogs, we have never met, nor have we ever talked to each other one on one. Although, I would love to meet her one day.

Likewise, Barry is someone I have never met either and even though we both do not always have the same view, his perception is quite interesting to read at times. He seems to have a better grasp on the "image" of an organization and how to make it really work. I find it interesting that you would jump and assume that we're all in it together. We're not. But, you can believe what you want.

I rarely go to DVTV. I think sharing views is good. It makes us see the other side that we may not have thought about.

Ya know, I've tried very hard to be civil but now I realize that no matter what, people like you will always put another people down just because they have a different view.

It would be funny, if we ever meet one day. You'll then realize that one should not assume things about people rashly.

It's not about you or me or anyone. It's all about how to reach out to hearing parents of deaf children. What is the best way to do it? That is all. This deaf community is just as much mine as it is yours. Ergo, I have every right to put in my two cents and you don't even have to agree.

mishkazena said...


Let's not downplay the significance of AGBell Association's statement that Deaf people using sign language are isolated from the society. The implication is that sign language isolates Deaf people when it's blatantly untrue.

Yes, there are some Deaf people using sign language who may be isolated from the society. Some oral deaf people isolated from the society. Some hearing people are isolated from the society, too.

AGBell Association was out of place to infer that sign language was the culprit of the social isolation. Many factors contribute to social isolation, but to blame it on a language shows extreme bias.

In my opinion, AGBell Association owes Deaf people an apology

Anonymous said...


I told you several times in the past that I have respect for people like you who have different opinions however do you think calling AFA “Jihad” is an opinion? I do not think so. It is not an opinion but degrading and insulting comment. I was shocked that you used this term as if you are telling the nation that AFA is part of terrorism group and that leaders are terrorists as well. I feel that you owe them an apology. You are giving wrong impression to the community that AFA will harm human beings and that is not true.


I know you have shared your opinions about DBC and AFA and many other issues for the past two years but I don’t think I ever saw your comments to give some support to our community. I might have overlooked them and if I did then I am sorry. I was surprised that you gave nice comment to Barb DiGi’s blog tonight. I have no problem whatsoever if someone like you or me have different opinions but I feel that we need to have a balance---disagreement and agreement on different issues. I think most of your comments in past two years were always about disagreement. I found this rather strange because you are Deaf and should understand what we all going through in this life.

ASL Risen said...

I found very interesting research about Helen Keller's life...
We need to learn how to understand the history about Helen Keller got divorce from southern racial and ideologies from NCAAP and Helen Keller's mother was suspected that Helen Keller, 36 yrs old and got marriage license with 29 yrs old Socialist, Peter Fagan on DVTV link:

Anyway I did sent the proof with that pdf link:
3. (<- this 2nd link keep scrolling down at Helen Keller front cover book about gunpoint at Peter Fagan) Was Helen Keller short time husband killed by gunpoint or what???? No photo of Peter Fagan??? Possible got killed by gunpoint???
4. (look at "Love")
5. When she was 36 Helen fell in love with Peter Fagan, a 29-year-old Socialist and newspaperman who was her temporary secretary. The couple took out a marriage license, intending a secret wedding. But a Boston reporter found out about the license, and his witless article on the romance horrified Helen's stern mother, who ordered Mr. Fagan out of the house and broke up the love affair. Helen never had any contact with Peter ever again. (in my wondering thought possible Mr. Fagan was killed by gunpoint???)

same page 797 (page 15) on pdf...

In early 1917 Keller's personal life fell into chaos that sent her
southward into the fray. Perhaps this is one reason she resisted her
family's pressure so halfheartedly. Anne Macy suffered ill health, tu-
berculosis, undoubtedly made worse by the deterioration of her mar-
riage to John Macy and a relatively unsuccessful 1916 Chautauqua tour
for the student and teacher duo. Doctors advised that Anne Macy have
a rest, which she took, away from Keller, in Lake Placid and then
Puerto Rico. Separated from her friend for one of the first times in
decades, Keller planned to spend several months with her widowed
mother in Alabama, perhaps smoothing over their relationship. Before
leaving the North, however, she fell in love and made secret plans to
marry a finger-spelling fellow socialist, Peter Fagan. The remaining
members of Keller's nuclear family, already angry at Helen, drew the
line. Purportedly sneaking her away on a forced midnight train trip and
chasing Fagan away with a gun, they insisted to her that her disability
rendered her ineligible for marriage and childbearing.

Karen Mayes said...

Penny. I have said MANY times that I have my OWN opinions. I make it very clear that it is my perspective. So I can say whatever I like and if you don't like it, leave it. I don't owe anyone any apologies. I believe in different approaches and I don't agree with AFA's approach, that is all.

And there is NO crime in having freedom of speech, and I am sorry that you feel that my disagreeing with AFA makes it a crime for YOUR likes. Remember there are MANY deaf niches... some don't agree while others agree. I don't have bad memories. I have close relationships with my hearing relatives. Hmmm... my deaf kids are mainstreamed and doing very well, in fact, my son is recently accepted in the honors program at his middle school. And we use ASL and hang out with our deaf friends. What else? Really, I am tired of your attitude.

Now, it is all about people's attitude. I choose to be positive and I choose to pave the road for both of my kids to succeed. I do my part. Do your part with whatever you do.

Now, have a great week.

Candy is a swell lady... she has a cool blog, which is not all about deaf issues. Recently she discussed the Twilight movie. Why don't you check out Mountain Mama's blog? It is heart-touching. There is more to life than just only deaf issues.

This is my last comment.

Anonymous said...


My last comment here too. I am surprised that Deafread owners still allow you to have a blog regardless that you called our community JIHAD. We will always remember this. We will see many more of your pessimistic opinions about our usual. You will never stop.

Karen Mayes said...

I feel sorry for you. I only COMPARED Deafhood to jihad... never called AFA people jihads. Next time, view my vidoecomment CAREFFULLy and take care not to take my words out of context.

Tada, hope you have a great life.

Candy said...


I don't look to see WHO said what. I look at WHAT was said. Not the person but the message and I do not always hold the same view as everyone, granted. I don't agree with everything Barb said but I did like her vlog, it was a good example. I think many times we will come face to face with ignorance more than not. I have not seen her second vlog, will check to see if she has done it. But, I'm going to guess that she will point out that AGB is not ignorant but an audist. Historically, perhaps. As far as that letter. In regards to what Mishkazena said, we can all disect that letter and interpret it differently. I just was able to see what they meant. I probably could explain it easily and the next person might interpret it differently. Actually, I think maybe I should. Give me time.

One other thing is always try to expand your mind to think of possible situation of the opposite scenerio. What if it was reversed? etc.

And, as for being D does not mean I am required to think like all the D's. All D's don't think alike, right? :) That would be a BORING deaf world, don't you think?

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Please don’t be discouraged. I wish I know how to be a peacemaker, but I don’t know how. I do love you all, and thank you for coming in this. It’s interesting about how we share with our thoughts/feelings here. I believe that we can solve a problem by asking in the way, we can get to know them better without judging. I know it’s not an easy task to do. It could happen to me ...if so, you can remind me.
Could you all make peace for all? You know. Every one of you comes into deaf issues with a purpose and discussion. It’s even a healthy way trying to understand what someone is saying. Since each one is a unique expression of deaf issues and matters, we can forgive and go on. If you feel something bothering you, just ask a question, like why are you saying this and that... I know, of course, each of you is a very cool, intellect lady! Let’s be cool!

Hugs to you all, gals!

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

I'd like to reply to all of you. I need to find some time to settle down since I watch some kids (from out of town) and my 7-week old granddaughter here. I'll do my best to get back to you.

Thank you for all your support and positive messages! :)

You left a very rude message here. Why are you doing this? Is it needed? Would it be helpful?

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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kim said...

I have been staying out of the debate. As a late-deafened individual who has never raised a deaf child, I realize this is not my fight. However, I just wanted to say I really liked your poem, and the positive way in which you consistently express your views.

And I also liked the naked male sculpture. lol Nice art work. ;-)

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Kim, thank you for this comment. Glad you liked my poem and the naked male sculpture. :D

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Hi Barb,
Thank you for coming, and I'm glad you liked it!

Yes, I respect AGBell, but it would be nice if they'd say the kind of statement that associate sign language to positivity. It'd be neat.

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

You made me laugh about the picture and sexism! lol Beautiful art is what it counts! *nodding and smiling*

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Thank you, Welch's ASL juice. That's what we need to show what we're doing...with a positive attitude. ;)

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Guess, I'm being too nice. Probably, Barry has a cartoon perspective. *winks*

I want to thank you for supporting me, it means so much to me.

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Thank you, Tar! I do my best :)

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Hi Karen Mayes,

lol, glad you liked the picture. Beautiful art, right?

Yes, that's fine. We need to have different perspectives. I have no problem with your thoughts. Being honest is good! Each one is unique but in a good way. You can share some feedback and help them in any way.

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Penny and Christine,

Please be nice to Karen, thank you.

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Hi Christine,

Thank you! I'm glad you liked this post!

We need more people to share feedbacks and good inputs (even if they have different perspectives from us, that's okay). Mike made a good point about expressing some feedbacks. When they share their thoughts, it gives us something to think about. We don’t always have to agree, but we can look at different views to make it better.

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

ASL Risen,

Thank you for your time for this links and information. They're so interesting! I'll email you soon. :)

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Hi Penny,

I agree strongly with you about presenting healthy and productive information and feedback about our community and issues. We can try to take a look at different perspective . . . but still need their ideas that they can be reproductive. We can express in a best way to open their eyes on positive things. But we need them in some ways, too.
Thank you for your support!

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Sorry I can't publish your last two messages. I don’t feel too comfortable with some words. Some of your words are fine, but some aren’t.

You left a message for Penny. Your first paragraph is fine, I think they’re good. But I don't feel too comfortable with the last paragraph, because it sounds too judging.

Another message from you to me,
In fact that I don't scold or put the target on you. It's not true. You’re fine in some vlogs.

I was hoping for the ladies to work out by themselves, but it didn't turn out well. That's why I didn't get in their way (you see why I don't scold them..I was hoping that they would work out but not)

Deb Ann and Hannah said...

Hi Mishkazena,

Thank you so much for your support! You made an excellent point.

Hugs :)